Witnessing to Jehovah’s Witnesses

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27 thoughts on “Witnessing to Jehovah’s Witnesses

          1. Yes, Jesus has a divine nature both in his pre/post human life, but when he was on earth he was a flesh and blood human being only sinless. (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 2:9)

            1. Thank you again for replying Daniel. We believe that Christ was flesh and bones and sinless however we don’t believe that He foresook the divine nature when He became a man (John 1:14; Matthew 17:2). We believe that after His death His physical body was resurrected (Luke 24:36-43) and that today He continues in that resurrected body even after being taken up to Heaven (Acts 1:9-11). I see nowhere in scripture that states that Christ’s divine nature suddenly returned to Him after His death.

              1. 1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 2:9

                Also– 1 Corinthians 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. New American Standard

                Also — 1 Peter 3:18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
                American Standard

                1. Daniel,

                  I appreciate your posting and perhaps I’m missing something in the texts that you are quoting. It might be beneficial to elaborate a little on these texts. I’m also unsure what you mean by “divine nature”. Would you elaborate on this a little further?

                  I’m unsure how quoting 1 Corinthians 15:50 makes your case that Jesus Christ died and then took on the divine nature. I would submit to you that you are reading into this text far more than what Paul had intended. Paul is arguing in these texts about the resurrection of men in the final days. In order for a man to enter into the kingdom that he must take on the incorruptible. In other words, flesh and bones is equivalent to perishable and Paul says that that one must be imperishable to enter. What does this mean? How does one become “imperishable”? Paul states in v.53 that mortality (flesh and bones/perishable) must take on immortality (imperishable) and this takes place at the resurrection when the dead are raised imperishable and those living are changed (v.52). When Jesus was raised from the dead, He was the first fruit of those who would be raised and they would be raised in the same way. My point is that Jesus resurrected body was imperishable and had taken on immortality. This body was able to enter into the Kingdom.

                  You also quoted 1 Peter 3:18 which in my mind if I interpret this text in the manner in which you are insinuating then I must abandon biblical inerrancy since it would say something explicitly different than Luke 24:36-43. Would it be possible for you to give me your exegesis of Luke 24:36-43 and demonstrate how Jesus Christ was resurrected as a spirit? You see the text can be translated in various ways such as the NASB or ESV that render it “in the Spirit” but many other translations NKJV, KJV, NIV translated it “by the Spirit”. This is in perfect harmony with the text of Romans 8:11 where it states that “But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you”. This is the same context as found in 1 Peter 3 and there’s really no reason to find some return to divine nature.

                  In regards to Hebrews 2:9, the text states nothing about Christ taking on a divine nature. It is a text that deals with the result of His death in that He was crowned with glory and honor. This is speaking of his inheritance and His coronation as king. I see nothing here about returning to a divine nature.

                  Again, thanks for posting

                  1. Jesus is not fully divine. (Isa 46:9) Because he is God’s son he has a divine nature/quality. (Matt. 16:15,16) Heb. 2:9 was sited to show that Jesus was “created a little lower than the angles” or human. I quoted 1 Cor. 15:50 to show that Jesus could not have returned to heaven as flesh and blood. Spirit beings have the ability to become humans as we see in the case just before The Flood and when Abraham was visited be three of them before Sodom and Gomorrah was distroyed. That should answer your question about Luke 24:36-43

                    1. Hi Daniel,
                      I understand to a large degree what you are trying to say but I wanted some elaboration because I wanted to make sure I understood you personally.

                      I believe that Isaiah 46:9 demonstrates that Jesus Christ is God. The uniqueness of Yahweh over against His creation is the greatest argument for the deity of Jesus. What attributes does Yahweh have that makes Him unique and differentiates Him from other beings? In other words, what makes Yahweh God?

                      I understood what you meant as well from your quotation of 1 Corinthians 15 but you still haven’t responded to what I wrote. What does it mean for the corruptible to take on the incorruptible? Do you believe that at the resurrection that humans will be raised as spirit beings and then manifest themselves with bodies as they please? I’m afraid that the parallel you attempted to use with “spirits” to demonstrate that Jesus was raised as a spirit and took on a body is found wanting. You see Christ stated explicitly that He would raise “His body” (John 2:19-21). This was the body He possessed at the time He was speaking those words. Was He mistaken? The body is very specific since it is the same body that was crucified (John 20:24-27). In your mind, what happened to this body? The gospel is a message of hope in Christ. Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose from the dead. I may be mistaken but it seems that the gospel you are promulgating leaves Jesus buried in the tomb.

                    2. Found wanting ? How ? Spirit beings have the ability to become humans as brought out in the examples I sited.
                      “The gospel is a message of hope in Christ. Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose from the dead” Yes. Absolutely.
                      But, Jesus proved a perfect man could be faithful to Jehovah God. Jesus gave his body (perfect live) as a ransom for what Adam forfeited, a perfect human life. If Jesus took back the same body he would be taking back the ramsom. Also, if you note in John 20:26 the door was shut. Some translations use the word “locked”. How did Jesus get in the room if he was flesh and blood?

                    3. Again, we were discussing flesh and blood going to heaven. Corruption inheriting incorruption is a side point.

                      Here is another scripture that might help:

                      Luke 24:28-31 28 Finally they got close to the village where they were journeying, and he made as if he was journeying on farther. 29 But they used pressure upon him, saying: “Stay with us, because it is toward evening and the day has already declined.” With that he went in to stay with them. 30 And as he was reclining with them at the meal he took the loaf, blessed it, broke it and began to hand it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; and he disappeared from them.

                    4. Again Daniel, Paul is arguing in these texts about the resurrection of men in the final days. In order for a man to enter into the kingdom he must take on the incorruptible. Does the text not say this? Flesh and bones is equivalent to perishable and one must be imperishable to enter. I don’t get how you think this is not relevant. Both are dealing with entering the kingdom. Again, mortality (flesh and bones/perishable) must take on immortality (imperishable) and this takes place at the resurrection. when the dead are raised imperishable and those living are changed (v.52). Do you believe that at the final resurrection that when bodies are raised from the dead that they will be perishable or imperishable? I stressed this again because Jesus was raised from the dead as the first fruit of those who would be raised and they would be raised in the same way. Jesus’ resurrected body was imperishable and hence could enter into the kingdom.

                      So, I ask one last time, what did Jesus mean when He stated explicitly that He would raise “His body” (John 2:19-21)? Was this the same body that was crucified (John 20:24-27)? In Luke 24, what did Jesus mean when He said that “for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” after they thought He was a spirit? Was He not correcting them? Are you not attempting to show Jesus resurrected as a “Spirit” while He explicitly denies it here? Are you going to answer these questions? If not, it’s fine, please just let me know.

    1. How? I explained it to you in the previous comments that I made. Unfortunately it seems you are ignoring my questions and you are not dealing with my arguments. May I ask if you took the time to read what I had written? If we are going to have a fruitful discussion then you need to start addressing my whole argument rather than fragmenting what I’m saying.

      I didn’t argue that there were spirit beings that had taken on human form, my point was that Jesus didn’t and I offered evidence to that assertion. I made several key points on the identity of the body of Pre & post resurrection which you ignored. I also made the point that Jesus needed to raise from the dead in the same body. If Jesus’ body did not raise from the dead then our bodies will not raise from the dead either. I will not be a Spirit being after the 2nd coming and the renewal of the earth. The victory over death that Jesus accomplished for us was that He raised that very body from the dead otherwise death was not defeated.

      In regards to your assertion that in Luke 24:26 (not John) that flesh and blood could not get into a room that had a shut door, I will answer with a question: How does a body that is flesh and blood walk on water?

      1. We started talking about Jesus being Jehovah, but it seems to have morphed into whether Jesus was raised in the flesh or spirit? I believe I have addressed the issues you have raised. Jesus was raised a spirit Sept. 9th and 18th posts.
        “Flesh and blood cannot inherent The Kingdom. (1 Cor. 15:50) Therefore Jesus could not have gone back to Heaven in a fleshly body . How does a body that is flesh and blood walk on water? By the power of God. There is a reason why the scripture makes a point mentioning the door was shut/locked. That ws to point out that Jesus could not have gotten into that room as a flesh and blood person. If I’m missing something, please tell me.

        1. Yes, the discussion did start on the matter of Jesus being Jehovah and it lead to this discussion on the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. Both issues are tremendously important especially in light of the promise of our resurrection and Christ’s victory over death.

          I don’t believe you have addressed the issue at all as I have clearly pointed out. I offered you my thoughts on 1 Corinthians 15 in regards to the difference between the perishable and imperishable relating to resurrection which you have clearly ignored. If you would contend that I’m wrong on this matter, please feel free to demonstrate it by walking through the text exegetically and showing me that I’m wrong. Simply to focus on three words “flesh and blood” while ignoring the context will not do.

          Once again, what did Jesus mean when He stated explicitly that He would raise “His body” (John 2:19-21)? Was this the same body that was crucified (John 20:24-27)? Let me ask you another question regarding Luke 24. What did Jesus mean when He said that “for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” after they thought He was a spirit? Was He not correcting them? You see you are attempting to show Jesus resurrected as a “Spirit” while He explicitly denies it here.

          1. As far as perishable and imperishable, I didn’t want to change the subject until we cleared up the other.

            All the information needed to come to the correct conclusion has been brought out. Please review.

  1. Here’s more information:

    *** rs p. 334 par. 1 Resurrection ***
    1 Pet. 3:18: “Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit [“by the Spirit,” KJ; “in the spirit,” RS, NE, Dy, JB].” (At his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was brought forth with a spirit body. In the Greek text the words “flesh” and “spirit” are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering “by the spirit” he should also consistently say “by the flesh,” or if he uses “in the flesh” he should also say “in the spirit.”)

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